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Post by Spammich on Feb 18, 2008 2:37:15 GMT -5
Abstinence is taught more often than condom use... It is annoying. And as for cigarettes, letting kids have them but not letting them buy them is asking them to have somebody older to buy them their smokes.
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Post by alba on Feb 18, 2008 8:03:13 GMT -5
In Scotland last October they raised the legal smoking age from 16 to 18 (I remember a friend turning 18 at the end of October and saying he was looking forward to it being legal for him to smoke again so he could buy his cigarettes in Tesco rather than some gas station that didn't ID) but Alex Salmond (the First Minister) didn't do anything to help all the kids between the ages of 16 and 18 who were now addicted to nicotine but couldn't get it legally.
In Britain if a cashier sells alcohol to someone underage their fine is about ten times the fine you get for buying it for a minor (but you can give it to your own children in your home at five if you supervise them), which in turn is ten times the fine for littering. I just cannot fathom this at all. And in Tesco there are all these signs saying that they only accept passports, Young Scot cards, or valid drivers licences, but then two weeks after I turned 18 (and I look young for my age) I bought a bottle of Morgan's without being IDed (I could've understood if it was wine, but spirits? Seems a bit fucked up). And now I'll stop ranting about British government.
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Post by AndrogynousMelon on Feb 18, 2008 16:43:30 GMT -5
Evidently no government handles that well.
I went to private schools for a long time (couldn't technically afford them but with the schools in my area it wasn't really an option) and there was no sex-ed. It was THIS IS VD AND WHAT IT DOES TO YOU. And a glossing over of birth control. I got involved with the Red Cross and took sex-ed courses with them. We did a few booth-things in the mall (couldn't do them on school property, not allowed) since that was where most of the kids went when class was out, it was right up the road. And I was very distressed to find that most of them did not know what oil-based lubricants do to latex condoms and God really silly things like...well I'm not going to get into detail on that, because some were downright stupid and gross.
So you've a large group of uneducated people having supposedly protected sex and then getting pregnant. They're not going to stop having sex because you deny them knowledge or attach a social stigma to purchasing contraceptives. They're just going to fuck up and drag abortion onto the table. (I'd never have it done myself, but entirely pro-choice here.)
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Post by Clover on Feb 18, 2008 17:33:17 GMT -5
I hate to be contrary, but the Canadian government actually does a pretty reasonable job with tobacco, drinking, and sex ed. I mean, I do live in one of the more liberal provinces (though we're all pretty liberal compared to the US), and our drinking and smoking age is 19. It's lower in Quebec, totally, and they don't seem to have any adverse effects. But, most importantly, we have a sex ed programme that beats most everything the states wants to throw. I can't speak for anyone else, but here is the sex ed I had: Health Ed and Gym were one class--of the ten months of classes, eight were gym and two were health. Middle School: This started in grade six--age eleven. Grade Six: Healthy eating, healthy exercising, and basic study of penis, vagina, menstruation Grade Seven: Healthy eating, healthy exercising, marginally more indepth study of penis, vagina, what happens when these two are combined, menstruation and noctural emissions. Grade Eight: Healthy eating/exercise, body shapes and self-esteem, how to say no, pregnancy, basic veneral disease. High School: Started in grade 9, age 14 Grade Nine: Peer pressure, responsability, dating, how to say no, situational responsability, pregnancy, and basic safer sex. Condoms, spermicides, Birth Control Pills, Morning After Pills, Abortions. We covered abstinence, as well--and we started studying the various penis/vagina permutations, and the ways these two givens could be combined in new and exciting ways. Grade Ten: How to apply a condom. How to INSIST on a condom. How to walk away from unhealthy relationships. How to delay sex without killing intimacy (Yeah, our teacher taught us how to give a handjob). What to do if the condom breaks. We also started studying diseases in depth: syphyllis, chlamydia, ect. We studied AIDs--the facts, not the hyperbole--and gay/lesbian sexuality in more depth. Grade Eleven: SEX TOY FAIR. Safer sex means intelligent use of sex toys. I am not even kidding. Our teacher brought in a box of sex toys--vibrators, dildos and more mundane stuff, like flavoured condoms. And she showed us how to use the condoms--and in one of my fondest memories of high school, stuck two hands in a condom and pulled her hands apart about a foot, and said, "Don't ever let any man tell you he's too big for a condom", and the entire class just -cringed-. And of course we had the whole birth control thing, the whole lesbian/gay sexuality thing--and an anonymous question box, which the teacher would take one class and answer every single question. Grade Twelve: Student Health and Wellness Day--a whole day where classes were cancelled and the school had activities devoted to student health and wellness--in all way, shapes and forms. They also gave out condoms, and everything. The whole shebang. And to finish this happy Canadian Tale: In a school of four hundred--70% female...there was not a single pregnancy that I was ever made aware of. I don't even understand how the States can say Abstinence works.
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Post by Spammich on Feb 19, 2008 4:30:35 GMT -5
yeah my sex ed teachings pretty much ended in middle school.
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Post by Trey on Feb 19, 2008 10:39:57 GMT -5
I didn't pay attention anyways, after I had to see the fucking hairy vagina from hell giving birth wtf.
I mean, you don't show it.
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Post by alba on Feb 19, 2008 11:54:47 GMT -5
We watched that film in grade 11 bio. It was grim.
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Post by Spammich on Feb 19, 2008 16:54:03 GMT -5
I got out of those videos, by being the computer lab technician because I didn't take any sex ed in Highschool, and middle school was easy to control. =D
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Post by AndrogynousMelon on Feb 19, 2008 19:49:32 GMT -5
Because the separation of church and state is a fucking lie, that's why abstinence is taught more than condom use and is tauted as effective.
This country is so behind on sexual health it's shameful. It's all scare tactics and used to be flat out lies. I think they've stopped the "condoms aren't actually effective IF YOU HAVE SEX YOU WILL GET DISEASES AND MUTANT BABIES BOOGA BOOGA (unless you wait till your married then you get the Gods Blessing viral immunity and all your children will be prodigies)" campaign, at least. I mean honestly, they ignored STACKS of scientific evidence to scare kids into abstinence. You know what they accomplished? The highest teen-pregnancy rate in the developed world. Kids having sex without condoms because LOL THEY DON'T WORK ANYWAY.
This conversation makes me seriously consider my old high-school life plan. Sex educator.
On a side note; I don't promote oodles of sex. I don't like whores. I personally waited until I was 18 and (admittedly rather foolishly) believed I wasn't going to be with anyone else for the rest of my life to have sex. I don't believe in sex without love or in the very least, strong emotional attachment. But I also believe in having an educated populace, and I understand not everyone shares my view points on sex and love. So rather than try and brain-wash other people, I'd like to see them educated. So they can make smart decisions. So abortion is not such a huge issue, because less unwanted pregnancies means...fewer abortions. I think thats the intelligent way to approach just about everything- accepting that there are many points of view, and yours isn't right for everybody. Which is the polar fucking opposite of the mouthiest of the Conservative party. Which is why I loathe them so very, very much.
ALSO: Yes Clover I forgot Canada. They're good on a lot of their policies. I'd love to see the same in the states. Because I do love my country, and I like to believe that's really the "American spirit and patriotism" (I see that line abused so often I could cry); seeing a problem and getting it fucking fixed. That is love for your country. Not sitting back and saying "Well what the government says is automatically correct" but saying "I will not let you destroy my nation, mother fucker." People like...the good Doctor King. There was a good American. Fought for his cause without violence - died for it - but changed the country for the better.
I think I've covered just about everything in this post : o
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Post by child-of-fae on Feb 19, 2008 19:55:54 GMT -5
i learn almost everything i know about real sex edthrough www.gurl.comin middle school we were taught birht control is a sin and you will go to hell. (only not really) now in HS health our teacher is srs business. she's hardcore about this stuff, andwe've seen 3 movies (ebola, AIDS, Ecstasy) and learning the general street prices for drugs. ($20 dollars for one pil of E.)
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Post by Spammich on Feb 20, 2008 5:53:36 GMT -5
Spam is still a virgin =D I'm saving it for when I actually fall in love.
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Post by alba on Feb 20, 2008 5:54:26 GMT -5
The problem with teaching abstinence is that people will at times intend to wait till marriage, but then change their minds, but because they had intended to wait till marriage will not have any condoms, whereas if it's encouraged to use condoms they're more likely to have them readily available when they choose to have sex.
I am somewhat religious, and I want to wait till marriage partly because I get hurt easily and I would be absolutely devastated if I *did* sleep with someone then he broke up with me. However, that is my choice. My cousin had a daughter outside of marriage in her mid-twenties and is doing a good job of raising her on her own.
Telling people what to do, especially when they're rebellious teenagers, is a good way to get them to do the opposite simply because teenagers are like that. I'm not trying to make sweeping generalisations, but when you're a teenager you're at an age when you start to want more freedom and feel prepared for it, but adults don't necessarily feel the same way, and try to protect you. For instance, completely unrelated to sex, when I was in HS my mum waited up for me if I was out at night, so I was never out late, and she would get me up by about 11 in the morning. Now I'm at uni and sometimes I'm out as late as 6 in the morning (I think the 6 was a one-time occurrence, but I've done 4, 5, etc. as well) and sleep past noon. I think parents often try and protect their children too much, for instance I was round at a friend's house with a group of guys and all of them refused to walk me home, when my mum by comparison wouldn't let me walk to karate even though it took longer driving (due to one-way streets and weird intersections that you can jay-walk at but have to wait at forever when driving) because she didn't want me walking home at 9:30 at night.
The thing I really hate about some conservative parties is, aside from Margaret Thatcher's "let's lower taxes! We'll give you more choice! Ignore the poor people dying in the streets because of it!" (Graffitti in the film 'This is England' elegantly put it: Maggie is a twat), is that they try to impose religious values on what shouldn't be a religious state, for instance abstinence and birth control.
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Post by Trey on Feb 20, 2008 15:34:28 GMT -5
I agree with what most of you are saying, but I'm not going to jump into anything pertaining to dissing conservatives. Despite the fact that I am extremely open minded and not like the ones you guys don't like, please try not to badmouth them, I take offense to people insulting my group. I know you guys haven't yet, I'm just putting that out there so this doesn't become some huge 'conservatives suck' thread.
On the other hand, I honestly don't know where I learned all of my sex ed. Probably from older friends, the interweb, sex jokes. Either way, I feel that I know enough about sex despite the system, yay for me! And yes, the system DOES suck, but I can NEVER remember anyone telling me that condoms don't work. Not to say people don't, I've just hung around the right people I guess. Yes, abstinence is more efficient, and yes, you can still get STDs with condoms and not with abstinence, but DAMN people, shouldn't you be using everything possible to keep yourself from getting pregnant?
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Post by Aindel on Feb 20, 2008 18:19:03 GMT -5
Sometimes, things happen. Other times, you seriously overestimate the intelligence of the average human being.
Aindel is also a virgin. Partly because I'd like to save it for when I'm in love, and partly because I'm paranoid about pregnancy.
Holy crap, Clover! You guys had an amazing education. Ours pretty much stopped after Grade 9, unless you opted to take gym in later years (which was not an option for me if I wanted to keep my average up. Gym is SO not my best subject, by a long shot). And even then, we were in the Catholic system, so it was "Yeah, there's this other stuff *vague hand wave in a direction towards a small chart with little to no detail on contraceptives*, but abstinence is better because we say so! FEAR OF GOD!"
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Post by alba on Feb 20, 2008 18:32:29 GMT -5
Sorry Trey. I know not all conservative parties are bad, I just find that if people are found to be imposing religion (specifically Christianity) and its values on people, it's usually a conservative one. There are some conservative parties, and people in them, that are better than that. It's just that I've never seen a non-conservative party try to impose religious values on the populace, so it is a characteristic that seems to be confined to conservative parties. And now let's forget about politics before someone gets upset! And give out free hugs! Aindel: I'm Ontarian, too, but I didn't get to take gym after Grade 9 (which was compulsory) because I was in the IB programme, and didn't have time regardless of whether or not I wanted to (which I didn't), so I got the sex ed Clover got to the end of grade 9.
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